Q: In your book you said that meditation is like a spiritual broom? It’s a nice image.
Maharaj: Yes, correct, correct. It’s the anti-virus software. Because the files are very corrupt, so many concepts are there. Though we know our identity, though we know the Reality, some concepts are there. And because some weakness is there, they’re flowing, exploiting.
See, basically, what do we want after spiritual knowledge, what is the principle? You want peacefulness, but no peacefulness is there. Always negative thoughts are coming, inside violence is there. We say “Oh, I’m okay, okay”, but something is there inside, burning inside. That burning should be stopped.
All the time we’re posing ourself as a man or woman or something in body-form. We’ve totally accepted ‘I am the body’ but you’re not the body at all, you were not the body, you’re not going to remain the body. How are you prior to beingness? Just question yourself: “How am I prior to beingness”. How are you after leaving the body? We’ve got a lot of knowledge, but what is the use of that knowledge, spiritual knowledge? Who wants spiritual knowledge? What do you mean by spiritual knowledge? Just to identitfy.
Knowledge is meaningless. There’s no knowledge prior to beingness, there’s no use of knowledge after leaving the body. Knowledge means just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re identifying ourself in body-form and that is illusion. And again I am repeating, that without meditation it’s not possible. At the advanced stage meditation is also illusion, but it’s necessary (in the beginning). To remove one illusion you have to take the help of another illusion. You know a thorn? To remove one thorn we’re taking the help of another thorn, then throwing away both thorns.
Anybody having any questions? Yes?
Q: So, you do the bhajans, you do the meditation, you do the practice, and eventually it occurs that you know who you are. You know you’re not the body and you know the world isn’t even existing. And then you don’t care, is that right? You don’t even care what happens? So if the body hurts, or if the body has great pleasures, or the body’s angry, the mind’s angry, it has nothing to do with who I am. And that’s the end, that’s the finality.
Maharaj: Because we’re not identifying ourself, therefore all these actions/reactions are there. The moment you identify yourself nothing will be there. Body is not getting angry. If there’s no Presence, is a dead body going to get angry? Prior to beingess did you know about anger or anything? Prior to beingness did you know if anything like anger was there? After leaving the body is any anger there?
Q: Is it like, for me sometimes, quite often, if there’s the anger in the mind it has nothing to do with me, because I’m the ocean, not the individual. And so I see things I take the touch of, like….
Maharaj: Thoughts are flowing inside and you’re taking the help of the ego, the flowing of the thoughts. You’re witnessing the thoughts, good thoughts, bad thoughts. Who is the Witnesser?
Q: Be the witnesser of the best and the worst.
Maharaj: Your Spontaneous Presence is the Witnesser, Invisible Witnesser. Your Spontaneous Invisible Presence is the Witnesser witnessing all these things. All this appears upon your Presence. Presence does not have any anger.
Q: I guess what I’m trying to say is: pain and anger – they don’t seem to be of any concern.
Maharaj: Of course. There’s no concern with your Selfless Self. You’re totally different. This came along with the body only. Prior to body-knowledge nothing was there. We were not knowing what is anger, what is anxiety, nothing was known to us. Who wants peacefulness? Who wants happiness? Who wants a fearless life? Does the body want a fearless life?