OneCircle USA Talks with Ramakant Maharaj Part I September 17, 2016
September 17, 2016
OneCircle Silver Spring, USA
Maharaj: How is everybody? Okay?
Yesterday we were talking about the principle of spirituality, the purpose of spirituality. And you know that spirituality is just to identify oneself in a real sense. What is the reason behind identifying ourself in a real sense? We are identifying our self as the food-body and that is not Reality. This is not our Reality (Maharaj indicates his body).
There is some glimpses of ‘I’. This is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master. Why is this required? Because we are wrapped in illusory concepts: ‘I am somebody else’. And because of that there is no peace, no happiness, always tension is there, fear is there. So unless we identify ourself in a real sense we are not able to identify Reality. And as I told you, literally we are knowing that ‘I am Brahman’ or ‘I am not the body’. Even if you think intellectually, it is fact: the body is not our identity at all. It’s open fact. Who is acting in this body, who is talking, who is listening? The Invisible Listener within you is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, Ultimate Truth. And for which there is no birth, no death, nothing is there. You are unborn, realize that you’re unborn, it’s fact. But we must have practical knowledge. Practical knowledge means: literally we are knowing ‘I am Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, I am not the body, the food-body’ but that Reality is supposed to be absorbed totally. Directly or indirectly we depend upon this food-body. We have a lot attachment to the food-body.
I never said neglect your food-body. This is the media through which you can identify yourself. There are so many concepts from childhood till today: ‘I am born’, ‘I am a man or woman’, so many concepts are there, social concepts, religious concepts. And within this circle we are living our life. After perfectly identifying (yourself) there will be dramatic changes within you, called signs of Realization. Spiritual science says there are six symptoms of Realization. There is the question: ‘How can I identify whether I’m Realized or not? What is the sign of Realization, what is the sign of Enlightenment?’ After having Conviction, after absorbing the knowledge of Reality, some changes are taking place. ‘Shama’ means to forgive and forget. (inaudible) petty matters are giving irritation. After having the Conviction you’ll be calm and quiet, just like Gautama Buddha or Jesus Christ, you know them? There’s no irritation. ‘Shama’ means forgive and forget. If anything happens against your mind, you’re not getting irritated, no anger is there. And ‘Dama’ means tolerance or patience. Tolerance comes spontaneously within you. Where petty matters would irritate us, there may be some violence inside, patience will appear. You will feel it. If any incidents happen against your mind, you’re not getting irritation. There’s tolerance, patience, ‘Shama’, ‘Dama’. ‘Titiksha’ means just to know the Reality, anxious to know the Reality: who am I? And then ‘Uparati’ means there is no attraction of the world. There are so many attractions to the world: publicity, money, sex, there are so many attractions to the world. No greediness, no attraction to the world. You’re living in the world, but there’s complete calm and quiet. And then ‘Bhakti’ means devotion, total devotion. After knowing the Reality there is total devotion. And ‘Shraddha’ means full trust and faith. These are the six symptoms given in spiritual science. You can measure yourself. And after having the Spontaneous Conviction about the Reality, these changes are taking place. What you are prior to beingness, how you will be after leaving the body, at that time there was no anger, nothing is there. And these symptoms will appear spontaneously within you. You’ll be calm and quiet.
I’m giving a story, an example of Gautama Buddha you may be knowing, just for understanding. The story is that a lady took on the challenge: ‘I will make him irritated’, and she abused him in very bad language. He was very calm and quiet. And the lady became irritated and said “Why are you not getting angry, not getting irritated?”. So he said “Oh mother, you’ve offered me something and I’ve not accepted it. With whom it remains?”
The same thing in Maharashtra: there was a Saint, Saint Eknath, he was a calm and quiet Saint. So one person took on the challenge that “I will make him irritated”. (Saint Eknath) had a route to go to take a bath in some river. (The person) spit on him forty times, and (Saint Eknath) took a bath forty times. And they (the person) bowed down to him “Oh, I am sorry”. Then (Saint Eknath) took him to his home and asked him to take lunch and dinner with him.
What am I trying to convey by this? How you are living, under the force of violence, that violence disappears spontaneously. It can happen. There’ll be always silence, no violence. And you’ll feel it, after having Conviction, you’ll feel it. That’s the principle of spirituality. Only listening, only talking and approaching so many Masters will not help you. Some changes are required. Then you’ll get realistic (inaudible) silence, peacefulness, no tension will be there – why tension is there? We’re having some expectations, and if something happens against your expectations you’re getting irritated. Everybody has so many expectations, from anybody, from family, from friends, from society, so many expectations are there, it’s the nature of the mind.
All expectations, needs, came along with the body only. Because body-knowledge is not tolerable, it’s a food-body. So far you’re supplying food, water, the body survives. It is an open fact, this (body) is not going to remain constant. Spirit, Presence, likes to continue the life, it’s it’s nature. Even an ant: if you pour some water (on it), he’s running here and there for survival. It’s the nature of the Spirit or Presence. Your Presence knows itself through body only. And for which, again I am repeating, the only source is meditation. Only through meditation can you identify yourself, have Conviction. Knowledge will be absorbed totally. And therefore I am repeating: dry knowledge, dry discussion on spirituality, if I talk hours together, years together with you, it is meaningless. It is your identity, not the identity of Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master.
Anybody having any question? Yes?
Q: In your book you said that meditation is like a spiritual broom? It’s a nice image.
Maharaj: Yes, correct, correct. It’s the anti-virus software. Because the files are very corrupt, so many concepts are there. Though we know our identity, though we know the Reality, some concepts are there. And because some weakness is there, they’re flowing, exploiting.
See, basically, what do we want after spiritual knowledge, what is the principle? You want peacefulness, but no peacefulness is there. Always negative thoughts are coming, inside violence is there. We say “Oh, I’m okay, okay”, but something is there inside, burning inside. That burning should be stopped.
For a long time we’ve been posing as a man or woman or something in body-form. We’ve totally accepted ‘I am the body’, but you’re not the body at all, you were not the body, you’re not going to remain the body. How are you prior to beingness? Just question yourself: “How am I prior to beingness”. How are you after leaving the body? We’ve got a lot of knowledge, but what is the use of that knowledge, spiritual knowledge? Who wants spiritual knowledge? What do you mean by spiritual knowledge? Just to identitfy.
Knowledge is meaningless. There’s no knowledge prior to beingness, there’s no use of knowledge after leaving the body. Knowledge means just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re identifying ourself in body-form and that is illusion. And again I am repeating, that without meditation it’s not possible. At the advanced stage meditation is also illusion, but it’s necessary (in the beginning). To remove one illusion you have to take the help of another illusion. You know a thorn? To remove one thorn we’re taking the help of another thorn, then throwing away both thorns.
Anybody having any questions? Yes?
Q2: So, you do the bhajans, you do the meditation, you do the practice, and eventually it occurs that you know who you are. You know you’re not the body and you know the world isn’t even existing. And then you don’t care, is that right? You don’t even care what happens? So if the body hurts, or if the body has great pleasures, or the body’s angry, the mind’s angry, it has nothing to do with who I am. And that’s the end, that’s the finality.
Maharaj: Because we’re not identifying ourself, therefore all these actions/reactions are there. The moment you identify yourself nothing will be there. Body is not getting angry. If there’s no Presence, is a dead body going to get angry? Prior to beingess did you know about anger or anything? Prior to beingness did you know if anything like anger was there? After leaving the body is any anger there?
Q2: Is it like, for me sometimes, quite often, if there’s the anger in the mind it has nothing to do with me, because I’m the ocean, not the individual. And so I see things I take the touch of, like….
Maharaj: Thoughts are flowing inside and you’re taking the help of the ego, the flowing of the thoughts. You’re witnessing the thoughts, good thoughts, bad thoughts. Who is the Witnesser?
Q2: Be the witnesser of the best and the worst.
Maharaj: Your Spontaneous Presence is the Witnesser, Invisible (inaudible). Your Spontaneous Invisible Presence is the Witnesser witnessing all these things. All this appears upon your Presence. Presence does not have any anger.
Q2: I guess what I’m trying to say is: pain and anger – they don’t seem to be of any concern.
Maharaj: Of course. There’s no concern with your Selfless Self. You’re totally different. This came along with the body only. Prior to body-knowledge nothing was there. We were not knowing what is anger, what is anxiety, nothing was known to us. Who wants peacefulness? Who wants happiness? Who wants a fearless life? Does the body want a fearless life?
Q2: The ‘I am’ wants, Keith wants peacefulness…
Maharaj: That ‘I am’ concept appeared upon your Presence. If your Presence is not there who will have anything to say about ‘I am’. To say ‘I am’ that Invisible Presence, Power, Energy, is required. If there’s no Presence inside, a dead body can’t say ‘I am’.
Q2: Correct, yeah.
Maharaj: Correct. To see this world, if the seer is not there, what is the use of the seen? The entire seen is reflected out of your Presence. The entire seen is reflected out of your Presence, Spontaneous Presence. To say something your Presence is required. I’ve given the name ‘Presence’. To identify something you have to give some name – ‘Brahman’, ‘Atman’, Paramatman’, ‘God’, ‘Master’ – these are the names given to the Supernatural Power withing you. I’m inviting the attention of the Invisible Listener within you that is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, that it is not separate from you. No to underestimate you. You have great power, you’ve got tremendous power. But all the time we are measuring ourself in body-form and that is illusion. It’s not your fault. Because of long association with the body we’ve got so much attraction, we’ve become one with the body. Whatever happens we accept it: “I’m somebody else”.
You are Ultimate Truth, it’s fact. You are unborn. Birth and death are connected with the body-knowledge only, not to you. But we’re not accepting the facts. And therefore some involvement is required. Not to torture your body. Why torture the body for knowing your Self? The thing which is already within you, why to torture it? Give some time, some involvement is required: “Yes, I want to know myself! Who am I?”, you’ll get courage. “If I am not the body, who am I?”, ask the question. That question is supposed to be solved within you only.
Q2: Excuse me for the way I’m talking. When you feel pain, you yourself, and in great pleasures, and in confusion, you probably…it’s of little consequence, is that correct? Or, how would you say it? When there’s pain in the body for you, or pleasures, or temptations, or…
Maharaj: There’s no difference between you and I. We are not different, bodies are different, Presence is one. You’re measuring yourself in body-form. I’m not measuring myself in body-form, so there’s no difference between you and me. These are the words: ‘you’, ‘I’, ‘he’, ‘she’, these are the words.
Q2: Yeah. I’ve seen it where you can meditate beyond pain.
Maharaj: And therefore meditation is required because all illusory concepts will dissolve. All illusory concepts are supposed to be dissolved, that’s the most important thing. Only dry talking, dry discussion will not help you. Even if you go to thousands of Masters, it will not help you. You approach your own Master, give importance to your own Master. We’re trying to find so many Master, and you’re neglecting your own Master.
Everything is within you, it’s fact. God, Brahman, Atman are not separate from you, I’m repeatedly telling you. And to dissolve all illusory concepts you are to undergo meditation. It’s the only source, there’s no other source. If you see thousands of Masters, if you go anywhere, if you torture your body, nothing will happen. These are temporary pain-killers. You’ve got to solve your problem within yourself only. There’s no problem. And for which, again I am repeating: the only source is meditation. Through meditation you’re inviting the attention of the Invisible Meditator within you that you are Ultimate Truth, you’re hammering all the time. You know! Suppose a criminal is there at the police station – “You are a criminal! This is evidence against you! You are a criminal.” Same thing happens: “You are Brahman, I know you are Brahman!”, and all concepts will disappear. It’s not difficult, it’s not difficult. You’ve are to devote some time, have strong faith within you. Because all the time we are dependent upon somebody else. “God will help me”, or “Some Master will help me”. You have to please your own Master within you!
So have some courage! Spirituality is giving you the courage to identify yourself. We’re having a lack of courage. Everybody wants some artificial limbs. You can stand on your own feet! Nothing is wrong with you. You can fly on your own, without wings.
Okay, in the beginning it’s okay. Like a child who depends upon it’s parents and all things, but now you’re grown up.
Anybody having any questions? Yes?
Q3: In your book you said “Be yourself and everything is okay”. How do you be yourself?
Maharaj: Yes, it’s fact! Because you’ve accepted body-knowledge. Yourself means Selfless Self, through which you are talking just now, you are identifying some concepts. Self is not separate from you. Name is given :’yourself’, ‘myself’, ‘yourself’, these are names given. It is Selfless Self. These are only words. There are so many Masters saying things in different ways. Instead of analyzing the words of all the Masters, what did they want to convey, that is most important. What did they want to convey? After reading so many books, what message were they giving? They’re giving the message: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master. That’s the gist of spirituality. Remember this: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master! It is a fact! Be bold, have some courage to accept the Reality! And you’ll find a dramatic change will take place, just like I told you all the six symptoms will appear within you. When you are getting some irritation, some violence, there will be complete silence, complete silence, peacefulness. You’ll have some tolerance also. No attraction of the world – why(be attracted to the world)? This can happen. The only thing you have to do is devote some time for you, not for any Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, or Master. You spend some time, you’re not required to pay a single penny for that. This is free of charge, knowledge is free of charge. But things which you are getting free of charge have no value. If someone is charging five thousand dollars or something you say “Oh, he’s a great Master”.
One person came to me who had a Hatha Yogi Master. His Master charged him five lakhs rupees in foreign currency – why? He cut his ear and something, something. Why is this required? Some different clothes are there, some garlands are there, so many things are there. They are decorating the body. Why are they decorating the body? When you came across this world, did you come with a decorated body? I’m not criticizing, this happens. Because we depend upon somebody else. We’re not trying to know ourself: “Who am I?”, the main question. That question will be solved within you only, because you are the source of this identity. Therefore I define it as ‘Unidentified’, ‘Invisible’, ‘Anonymous’ Identity. There’s no name, you can’t guess. Say I’m talking about something, that Invisible Listener is listening, some flow of thoughts are there. You’re witnessing that thought – who is that? And therefore I told you: be with you. Because your Presence is Ultimate Truth.
Don’t accept illusory thoughts. Thoughts are flowing, why to struggle with the thoughts? We are struggling with the thoughts: “Why this, why this?”. Okay, it’s the nature of the body.
Q3: But that’s difficult…
Maharaj: Why difficult? You can identify thoughts. The things which we do not accept, forget it. If dishes are given to you, so many things are there, you say “I don’t want this, I don’t want this, I want this food only”, correct? Not to flow along with the thoughts. This can happen through meditation. Give some time for you. Only reading books, listening from anybody else, no. Listen to your own voice, inner voice. This will happen if we’re calm and quiet.
Who is witnessing the thoughts inside?
Q3: But how do you know the inner voice that you sit there and hear, the inner voice, how do you know it’s not from your body though?
Maharaj: The body is only the media. You’re witnessing thoughts, you know? You’re witnessing the dream, you’re watching the dream, you know? Who is watching the dream? You are asleep, the body can’t watch. Who has created the dream world? Have you decided “today I’ll see this dream, tomorrow I’ll see that dream”?. You see the sky, the oceans, so many things, you see the Gods, so many things. Who has created the dream world? Similarly, the Presence clicked with the body and you see the dream-world. The body is not creating any dream. The combination of Presence and the body, just like the combination of the matchbox and the stick: they click each other and you see the fire. Fire is everywhere. Just like the five elements are everywhere. American water is not separate from the Indian water, hm? The sky is different from American sky and Indian sky? Because there are different bodies we see ‘this one’, ‘this one’. Presence is one.
After having this Conviction, all concepts will dissolve. There are so many concepts engraved upon us: ‘there’s a God’, ‘you’re going to die’, ‘last birth’, ‘future birth’, ‘hell’, ‘heaven’, what are these things? Who knows ‘hell’ and ‘heaven’? We don’t about this present birth, why are we talking about an earlier birth? We’re talking about ‘sin’, ‘virtue’ and all these things.