You are steady. Everything is moving around you. When you are traveling on train. You are steady train is running, trees are also running. You are there and there only. So likewise, your existence is beyond sky. So, what I want to convey to you is that without body your existence is beyond sky. So don’t worry what will happen, ‘I dreamt this body, what will happen to that soul’ or whatever. Nothing is going to happen. When you come in this world as a man or woman, have you thought prior to birth ‘I will take birth in Russia’? Therefore totally don’t have any pressure of body. Enjoy this life peacefully, happily. Do your job efficiently. So now you have got Ultimate Truth in you.
That is sufficient, what do you want more?
These are invaluable jewels given to you. Why to beg for somebody’s grace? One Saint from Ashram, he came here after discussion he says ‘Put your hand on my head’ Why? You can put your own hand on your head. Because he was not, he is about 75, so his devotion more than 50 – 60 years in this field. He had not come across such knowledge. So he wanted to come again, he is suffering from his diabetic condition, has heart condition. Even though after 60 years journey he came here. He was a Swami. So this is direct, this knowledge is very, very rare.
Q: Maharaj, another paragraph from the book.
Q: We don’t know about the specific Ganesha gesture.
‘The spiritual path is very easy’ it’s very easy. I am trying to tell you, spiritual path is very, very easy it is your own story. ‘Attention which is on this side needs to be shifted to the other side’. We are having attention on body, all the time concentrating body, therefore that attention should be paid to the Ultimate Truth. ‘Ganesha idol is God for pleasant thoughts and offer sweets’. Your presenting flowers etc. You are doing everything for the idol. ‘However you do not pay any attention to what he says by his hand gesture. He shows, directly he shows, a pinch between thumb and finger to say “Only this is the mistake which has to be corrected’.
Q: What does that explain?
I’ll tell you. He is directing you pinch thumb and finger. Like this. Only this is the little mistake we are making.
Instead of having attention that ‘I am Brahman’ You are talking as a man or woman, in body form. That means you are Ultimate Truth, but you are committing a little mistake that ‘I am somebody else’.
When did you come across with the disturbing mind? When did you come across with the mind? When you know yourself, ‘I am’. Then you came across with the mind. What is the mind? ego? who says ‘my intellect’? Who says ‘I’? To say something, your prior Presence, your Spontaneous Presence is necessary.
How that Presence is? Spontaneous Presence, Invisible Presence, Anonymous Presence. Unidentified identity. Just to indicate, it’s say,identity, or it’s existence. You are having tremendous energy, all the time we are measuring in this body. So therefore, I have given the example of that factory. These are veils, mind, ego, and intellect. That is in charge, ego and intellect are working under him. Workers are there all parts are there, working hours and years together. You are providing them with energy. You are paying their salary. Your taking food. Your nourishing them. I am trying to simplify this.
Q: It is mysterious. Beyond the common sense or solution.
M: See very powerful exceptional energy, power you have. But because you are not aware of your power, therefore you are trying to have some artificial happiness, artificial peace, their painkillers.
Q: I have temptation to use this energy. Ego tempatation to…
M: Again you are taking the body form. Be as it is. After knowing be as it is, be silent. Temptation is coming through the body feeling. Who’s temptations? Why this? No temptation is there. You want to become something. Who wants to become something? Again you are taking the body form. But that conviction is required, Yes! Temptations are bound to be there, feelings are bound to be there. But always behind that temptation, behind that alertness, behind everything, your Presence is there.
Q: If I have conviction I also take the body form.
M: Conviction, there is no separate conviction. I told you this body is called man, that’s conviction. Are you saying ‘I’m a man, I’m a man?, I‘m Vladimer, I’m Vladimer’ are you repeating ‘I am Vladimer, I am Vladimer’? No. Your parents have given the name Vladimer. Your Vladimer. Even in deep sleep, say Vladimer, oh, I am Vladimer. So that name is totally attached with your body. And you accept as fact.
Q: About this conviction, so…
M: This body is called man, that is conviction. If anyone says you are a woman, you will slap him.
Your name is Vladimer. In deep sleep, someone says Vladimer, you wake and say yes. In deep sleep also you remember your name.
Q: So conviction is kind of silent knowledge.
M: Conviction means, Ultimate Truth, which is accepted spontaneously. When that lion is not knowing he is a lion. Since he was brought up with the goats. He considered himself, that lion considered himself, ‘I’m a goat, I’m a got.’ And he started fearing dogs and fox and things. Lion from jungle or forest says ‘You are not a goat, Your a lion.’ He took him and analyzed the all the parts of his body. See my parts of the body, see your parts of the body they are the same. Then he went to compare the body of the goats. Then the goat says “Oh, I am a lion.” Likewise Master is explaining all these things. Your not a man or woman, You are not Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, Master. Your identity is beyond that. Your identity is beyond that. These are high definitions. Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, OK, good, good. But what they want to convey? Your power your energy, is extremely, beyond, beyond, that. Not even that. You are prior to everything. Without presence you can not find see the world. So Your Presence can not be defined in words. We are trying to use so many words, to convince that. What more do you want?
Q: I don’t know.
M: So just be silent.
Q: I want this to be established.
M: Again your asking, why, your already there. You are already there. But you forget, therefore
you say ‘I want to be established’ You are established, the established Truth, it’s Ultimate Truth. Just like you say ‘I want to become Vladimer’ How can you become Vladimer? ‘I want to become man’ You are already man! Likewise the terminology that Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, Master, God, Goddesses, all these are within you only. Only one thing because of association with the body you forgot your identity. That is shown through the source of Master. Their is no difference between, Master and seekers and disciple. Spirit is there.
What is there? Take your time, use your energy, nothing wrong with you. Happiness is there, your beyond fear, fear is a shadow. It is your shadow, ghost, where is the ghost? Your shadow. To say ‘ghost’ or to say ‘God’ your Presence is there. Without your Presence how can you say ‘ghost’ and ‘God’? These are imaginary things.
M:Time and space we created, no time no space is there. No meaning is there, everything is meaningless. Yourself, myself the entire world is meaningless. Entire world is illusion. Who has created time? After having touched with the body you say ‘This is time, this is space, this is east, this is west’, no meaning is there. Though no words are there, there is no meaning. Your Absolute everywhere you are. Beyond sky, your Presence is beyond sky, no meaning is there. Meaning is also giving some limitations.
For discussion it is OK. No time limit, no border limit, no meaning is there. You see within your Selfless Self, nothing is there. Just some way, some subtle way say ‘I’. Without having any shape. The wave does not have any shape. The experience I have is because of body base, if body is not there who will talk about the I? If body is not there, who will talk about the ‘I’, ‘You’, ‘He”, ‘She’, ‘It’, nothing is there. Nisargadatta Maharaj says ‘If you want to compare, compare just like the sky’, sky does not have it’s own feeling. Birth, death, meaning, time limit, nothing is there. We created a circle, we created so many concepts, ok, using say, human life, all conditions and meanings are there. All science is there, spiritual science is there, religions are there, it is an illusory world. That is what is ‘Shivoham’ no master, no brother, no disciple, nothing is there. It is easy to say but you need to have spontaneous conviction. It is open fact. After leaving body where is the meaning? As long as we are living in the body as a man or woman, ‘somebody else’ all these concepts are there. When did concepts come across, when you came across with the body, if there is no body, no concepts are there. I’m inviting attention of that Ultimate Truth. Listeners truth.
Q: Prior to beingness, it doesn’t seem, there is nothing Maharaj.
M: Yes, of course, nothing, to know nothing, all this everything is there. I told you everything came out of nothing, everything dissolves within nothing. Just for discussion purpose we are refreshing the Reality. Because you forgot your identity, it is not your fault. Because of long association with the body, you forgot your identity under the pressure of man, woman, some concepts are there, all concepts came along with the body and will dissolve along with the body. Entire world is illusion, nothing is there. Brahman is illusion, Atman is illusion, Paramatman, Master and Disciple is illusion. Siddharameshwar Maharaj says ‘To teach you something I have to take ego as a master’ without ego I can’t talk with you. There is no difference between you and me, but you are posing as a man ‘somebody else’, you have to change your views. There should be conviction, ‘I am nothing to do with the world’.
Q: What do you mean by idendity? Unidentified, but you said it is identity?
M: Presence is there. Without your knowledge, some Presence is there. Therefore, unidentified, invisble annonymous identity. Listen to my words, how I define. It is unidentified, invisble identity – you can’t see, annonymous – there is no name, you can’t define it. Pure Presence, Presence is nameless, without form, it cannot be defined with any words. Therefore we say unidentified idenity, annonymous identity, invisble identity. You can’t guess.
Q: Maharaj, does it indicate itself?
M: Selfless Self. You say ‘self’ it is having some color of ego, when you say ‘self’ there is some color of ego. It is Selfless Self.
Q: Yes, so ‘self’ without ego?
M: Sellfess Self, there is no ego, no mind there is no intellect. There is no ‘I’ there is no ‘You’ nothing is there.
There’s no limitations. Body is having limitation. With these various words we are trying to convince except yourself nothing is there in the world. Who says ‘I’? To say ‘I’ to say ‘you’ some identity is required. For discussion purposes, you have to take the help of some words. Spiritual words. Just to convince that Invisible Identity, which can not be defined in words. So the source of the entire world is within you only, not in the form of body. But because of long association with the body, and so called mind, and ego and intellect. You forgot your identity. Started thinking I am a man or woman. ‘I am knowledge’, ‘I am Brahamn’, ‘I am Atman’, ‘I am Paramatman, God or Master’. All these terminologies started.
As a matter of fact, these terminologies, these terminologies are within the space of time, of I am, from childhood until today. Prior to childhood, when your not knowing yourself, there is no I am, there is no Brahman, there is no Atman, there is no Paramatman,there is no Master, nothing. After leaving this body, there is no experiencer, there is no experience,there is no identity,there is no consciousness, there is no awareness, nothing is there.
Q: I can compare it is like a hole in the ice, I was covered in ice and you break the hole.
Don’t apply your intellect, don’t make deliberate effort, what I told is Ultimate, is your identity, spontaneous identity, invisible identity. I try to explain, in some words, words have no meaning, just to convey, because without words I can’t convey you. So I am taking the help of them, but as a matter of fact, nothing is there, except yourself. It’s open truth. All our discussions, even spiritual discussion, high level discussions, discussions about Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, these are only dry discussions. We can go on discussing hours together their is no meaning, out of discussion, what is the conclusion.
Q: No conclusion.
Conclusion is that, except yourself nothing is there. All spiritual books, all the discussion, all this information,with various sources, what they indicate, is except that Unidentified, Spontaneous, Anonymous, Invisible Identity, nothing is there.So be calm and quiet. You do your job, spirituality is not disturbing your routine life. It’s not something, what happens, I am going to die, no. But, at Ultimate stage you are totally fearless, there won’t be any type of tension, there is no question of happiness or unhappiness.All these terminologies, connected with the body form only. When there is conviction ‘I am not body, I was not body, I am not going to remain body,then why should I be bothered about any of this atmosphere?’
Q: To survive.
OK, therefore Siddharameshwar Maharaj rightly says “This is little carrot, so far you can play, you play, otherwise you can eat it.” So, with various words, various terminologies, with various
information,trying to convince, Silent, Invisible, Anonymous, Spontaneous, Listener, everything behind, Your Spontaneous Presence is there. Don’t try to color it in the form of mind, ego, intellect. There is no mind, there is no ego, there is not any intellect.
Q: When you teach a person, do you give him a task on purpose or just spontaneously. For example, ‘Today I will tempt him, I will give him temptation and we will see whether he can manage it or not.’ Do you give like this or just spontaneously?
Temptation appears spontaneously, I am not giving, I have to take ego to give something. There is no ego, no giving, no taking. It happens spontaneously. The Listener is spontaneous, Listener is listening, Speaker is speaking, body is external cover, this is a voice box. See, there is not any difference because everywhere, all these bodies, Spirit is one. Bodies are different all the time were thinking as body, body-knowledge. Therefore ‘I am different’ that body identity is supposed to be dissolved. We are talking something, we are listening something, on the base of body. It’s open fact, body is not your identity at all.
For discussion purpose, say action of thoughts, conversation, language is there, body is required, only body can’t listen, it requires some Spirit, Power. This is a power house. Power is invisible, if power is not there, what is the use of the power house? The inner power is supplying power, generating power, but if generating power stopped then what is the use of that power house? It is open truth it is not difficult. Some or other way, we are having strong faith in body because of long association with the body. We have allot of attachment. If I stay at some house I get used to that house. This is a house. Staying 30, years, 40 years, 50 years, after maintaining it, you’ll not want to leave the house. This house belongs to the five elements. Just like stones are there, bricks are there, cement is there, sand is there. Blood is there, flesh is there, bones are there, so many organs are there, without power nothing will not function.
M: We say ‘I-am’ is the whole, ‘I-am’ is the world, beyond the world, this is all literal knowledge.
Q: It’s my feeling.
M: My feeling, who is feeling that, behind that my feeling, something is there to say ‘my-feeling’. To
say ‘my-feeling’ some energy is there. Without that how can you say ‘my-feeling’? Some click is
there, spontaneous click, spontaneous presence is there, out of that spontaneous presence immediately
taking ego as, ‘my-feeling’. There is no ego, there is no intellect, there is no mind, when you say
‘my-feeling’, prior to that feeling your spontaneous presence is there.
Q: Yes, I follow but not with my mind.
M: Forget about mind. So like electricity, that light, electricity is there. Therefore it is flowing,
who is the cause of the shining?, electricity. This is a light, this is a fan. ‘My light’, who says
‘my light’? Without electricity how can you say light You can say ‘my-light’, but if electricity is
not there how can you say ‘my-light’? Likewise, ‘my feeling’ ‘I-am’, to say ‘I-am’ to say ‘my
feeling’, some subtle, some invisible, spontaneous, anonymous, presence is there. Without that
presence, you can’t say ‘I’ or ‘you’. I am inviting attention of that invisible presence. Which
cannot be defined in the words.
Presence is there, but it can not be defined. Out of that presence we are talking. We are acting,
body is only media. Mind is media, intellect is media, ego is media, all these, this factory working
because of one electricity. If that electricity, power is not there, what is the use of the factory?
This is factory. Heart is working, liver is working, eyes are there, so this is inner factory. Your
eating, your digesting, these internal parts. Entire body is one factory, who is running that
I am running life with ‘my-mind’, director, so many things are there. Mind is there, intellect is
there, personality department is there. General Managers are there, so this isa factory. How is it
working? Some owner is there? Invisible owner, Spontaneous owner.
With that invisible instruction, that factory is working. What happens is that mind becomes stronger,
mind starts to give instruction to that owner mind starts to give instruction to that owner. Owner is
not knowing his identity. Master says, No, don’t take instruction, You are the one, You are the
owner who is running all this, You are paying him.
Q: I’m confused about when the best time to activate the inner Master and do the self-enquiry. Should that…
Maharaj: See, I said that ‘inner Master’ and ‘outer Master’ are concepts. There’s no difference between the internal Master and the external Master. Just for understanding we are saying ‘internal Master’, ‘external Master’, there’s no difference between any ‘internal Master’ and ‘external Master’. It’s just for understanding. Master is Master, there’s no inner and no outer, no external.
Q: Thank you.
Q: Who is eligible to have the Naam Mantra?
Q: (inaudible)..requirement for that?
Maharaj: Yes, yes, I told John. If you are willing to have the Naam Mantra, spare some time for Naam Mantra. But it should be sincere. I’m not accepting anything from you, but you should be sincere to accept it, your involvement is most important. Because what happens, is that things we get free of charge have no value. I’m not expecting anything from you except your involvement, which is most important, not anything else. To give the Naam Mantra is not difficult for me. But there should not be some ill-faith or something. Be serious about the Naam Mantra.
Q: How to practice it?
Maharaj:(Inaudible), (I’ll guide you). You are to recite the Mantra according to the breathing. At the initial stage we are giving some discipline, just like when you are learning some language, how to write a-b-c-d and all these things.
Q7: Because sometimes it feels we are torturing ourself.
Maharaj: It’s not necessary to torture yourself. It’s a very simple thing. No torturing, no special exercise. Why to torture the body? It’s a simple thing, it’s your knowledge, not the knowledge of ‘Brahman’, ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’. The Invisible Listener within you is Ultimate Truth, it is called Ultimate Truth. But you are neglecting it, you are underestimating yourself. You say “God is great”, “Oh God bless me”, okay, it’s not bad. But if your Presence is not there, how can you identify God?
To say ‘God’ your Presence is required. If there’s no Presence in the body, who will talk about the God? Who will talk about this world? At the initial stage I’m insisting on meditation because we forgot our identity. You might have read so many books, you might have listened to so many Masters. But you’re not reading, not listening as if it’s the listener’s story, the readers story, “It’s my story”. If somebody writes your biography, you“It’s my biography”.
Q: You can also recite with an ‘Om Nama Sivaya’ or (other) mantra also?
Maharaj: You can recite one mantra, any one mantra. Not to take one mantra from one Master, go to another Master for some other mantra. Have some loyalty or faith with your mantra, any mantra will do. Not to encourage wavering mind: “Today one Master gives this mantra then that Master gives a different Mantra”.
Q: No, in the morning you have a habit of (inaudible), ten minutes…
Maharaj: Okay, no problem. With full faith, full involvement. Any mantra will do: ‘Aham Brahmasmi’ is okay, ‘Sivoham’, any mantra. But be faithful with full trust.
Q: I’m kind of confused. When you say something comes…nothing comes from something, and then something becomes nothing?
Maharaj: I said that ‘everything came out of nothing, and everything dissolves back into nothing’. Everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing.
Q: But how can something become nothing? And nothing become something, I mean…
Maharaj: We are playing with the words. Try to identify yourself so this question will not arise in your mind. These are the words, I repeat, this is language through which you are conveying yourself. We have created language: ‘something’, ‘nothing’, ‘everything’, these are words. The basic principle behind that is that you have to try to identify yourself, try to identify the Invisible Listener within you. Instead of analyzing so many words, spiritual words, try to identify: who is the analyzer? Who wants this knowledge? What is the purpose of this knowledge? To what extent is this knowledge helpful? Suppose somebody has lots of knowledge. Will that knowledge help at the time of leaving the body? Lots of knowledge, so many books you are reading, fifty years of sadhana, seventy years of sadhana, or something. Just question yourself: “After reading so many books, after having approached so many Masters, after having a lot of knowledge, will this knowledge help me at the time of leaving the body?” You should be fearless. That fearless life should be there. That moment should be a happy moment: “I am not dying, no death is there. I am unborn.”
You’ll get spontaneous courage out of spirituality to approach any problem. Thoughts are coming and going, negative thoughts are coming and going, depressions are there. But after having Conviction you’ll neglect all these depressive thoughts. It is momentary, just like clouds, black clouds coming and going. You are there and there only.
Maharaj: Of course, when did you come across the ‘love’? ‘Love’, ‘affection’, these are concepts which appeared upon your Presence. When the Spirit clicked with the body, the love, affection, appeared before you. What is the love? Prior to beingness no love is there. After leaving the body any love is there? So far we’re measuring ourselves in body-form, ‘love’, ‘affection’, so many things are there, so many relations are there: ‘my father’, ‘my sister’, ‘my brother’, ‘my Master’, ‘my God’, thousands of concepts are there. The moment the body dissolves nothing is there, no relations. All relations are body-based relations, and you are not the body at all, you were not the body at all, you’re not going to remain the body at all, because you’re Ultimate Truth, you’re Final Truth, Final Reality.
And to absorb this Reality, again I am repeating, you are to undergo the meditation, it’s the only source. Only reading, only talking, only listening, no. And you can do it! Nothing is impossible. Because except your Selfless Self nothing is there.
Be practical. Not to neglect your family life. If you’re doing a job, do your job, you’re doing duties, do your duties. So “I’m Brahman”, or “I’m spiritual man, how can I do all these things”, no restrictions at all. What you’re reading, what you’re doing, has nothing to do with it. There’s no deed, there’s no doer! Because we are measuring ourself in body-form therefore we are saying “I did something, bad thing, good thing”. What is a ‘good thing’ what is a ‘bad thing’? That which is tolerable is a ‘good thing’, that which is not tolerable is a ‘bad thing’.
Q: I think of bliss, and then I think of impersonal love as sort of the same, and to me, when I’m there, it’s a fact to me. Then other times, I forget that fact. So is the bliss, the bliss and love…
Maharaj: Not to measure yourself in body-form. What blessing is there?
Q: Bliss, bliss…
Maharaj: Ah, acha, acha (I understand), blissfulness.
Q: So,when I experience that it’s a fact for me…
Maharaj: It’s okay, it’s okay…
Q: …but then I forget it, and then it’s no longer a fact.
Maharaj: Don’t underestimate you. Nothing forgotten, nothing remembered. That so-called ‘I’ is supposed to dissolve.
Q: When you meditate do you have to repeat a certain Mantra?
Maharaj: Yes, of course, of course. Therefore I told you, our lineage is having a different mantra. ‘Aham Brahmasmi’ is one, ‘Soham’ mantra is there, ‘Sivoham’ mantra is there, ‘I am Brahman, Brahman I am’. Various mantra’s, various words are there. It is an indication, some key-words. Through those words you are to identify, you are hammering yourself. You’re not only sitting for one hour, two hours. You can sit for meditation, but all the time involvement is required.
Q: When I do the meditation I can’t help but have thoughts coming through. What do I have to do to stop the thoughts?
Maharaj: It’s the nature of the mind. Mind means flow of thoughts. You are witnessing thoughts, you are different from thoughts. You are witnessing thoughts, good thoughts, bad thoughts, you are witnessing. Not to try to control the thoughts, let them be there. Suppose you are sitting here and outside something happens, you’re neglecting it. Thoughts are flowing all the time. Which thoughts to be accepted and which thoughts not to be accepted is up to you.
Q: I just have a little technical question about the Mantra Japa. A person can do Mantra Japa while breathing in and breathing out…
Q: …and also he can (inaudible), and he can also do the same Mantra, (inaudible), ten or fifteen times, so which one is…
Maharaj: Why ten or fifteen times, there’s no limit of ten or fifteen times. It can be continuously, it is your property, you can use your property.
Q: But then if I take breath in and breath out, I can repeat more than one time…
Maharaj: See, when you’re sitting for meditation, at that time, this principle is there. All the time you can recite the Mantra as it is, be simple.
Q: So if I can do five…
Maharaj: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem. I told you, when you’re sitting for meditation, you sit as per the instruction given to you, as for all the time you can recite the Mantra as it is. Be normal. And even then, there’s no hard and fast rule, I’ll tell you. This is the beginning stage, just like when you’re learning some language you write ‘a’ like this, ‘b’ like this, ‘c’ like this, when you’re a student. After having some stages, you’re no longer a student, you’re a master of that particular language.
So when you’re sitting for meditation, you sit in that fashion for half an hour, one hour, two hours, it depends. And according to the breathing it will give more effects, it will be give more absorption. But all the time you can recite the Mantra as it is, not concentrating on the breathing and all. And thereafter also, you’re not required to sit like this also, your meditation will be spontaneous within you. So without your knowledge, even within deep sleep, that meditation is going on inside. This is the beginning stage, the initial stage, but you have to do it.
So be practical. As I told you, this is an opportunity, the body is an opportunity to identify yourself in a real sense. Basically you’re formless, this form isn’t going to remain constant. This is a shape, a form (Maharaj refers to his body).
Yes, anybody have any more questions? Be free.
Q: I have one. Does a certain type of diet help calm your mind? Like a sattvic diet? Vegetarian, not many spices?
Maharaj: No, no, no. No question of diet, diet is not a restriction, it is not a concern. Whatever physical requirement is there is unconcerned with the Reality. What you’re eating, what you’re doing, what you like for the feeling of the body, the requirements of the body, you can do it. Whether you take non-vegetarian or vegetarian is not a concern. How you are identifying yourself, that is most important. You’re not the body, what is required for the body, you can do it. Whether you take the pure water, whether you take other water, this is unconcerned.
So many concepts are there, therefore I’m telling you, you have to come out from all these concepts, body-based concepts, you have to undergo the meditation.
Q: So the yoga, the postures, is another body-based concept then?
Maharaj: Yoga? Yoga is good for health. But it will help you, pranayama is giving some good (effects). There are some types of yoga, padmasana also gives good effects. Yoga is also helping. But it is not Ultimate Truth, it will help you. Pranayama is good for you.
Q: Maharaj, I just want to make sure I understand or elaborate a little bit more on what this gentleman had asked you. There’s a lot of chaos and drama in my family during the course of the day, and I’m trying to repeat the Mantra during all this drama, because in Reality there’s really nobody there…
Maharaj: Correct, correct.
Q: …correct, and I just want to understand: I don’t have to focus on the in and the out breath while I’m repeating the Mantra, while experiencing or seeing the chaos and the drama that is going on. As long as I’m aware and repeating the Mantra, that’s all I have to do. I don’t have to be aware of the in and out breath at that time. I do take time to meditate by myself, but I’m talking about all the other time that all this is going on. Do I have to be aware of the in breath and the out breath….
Maharaj: It is only the beginning stage only, until you’ve got conviction. Breathing, reciting the Mantra – only at the beginning, initial stage. At the Ultimate stage it’s not necessary, not necessary to recite the Mantra also. It happens spontaneously. What is a Mantra? It is reminding you, trying to identify yourself. Where was the Mantra prior to beingness? Any Mantra was there when you came into this world? After leaving the body, any Mantra will remain? The Mantra is also a concept, it is illusion. But to remove one illusion, you have to take the help of another illusion. Just like a thorn, you know a thorn? To remove one thorn you take the help of another thorn and then throw away both the thorns. But you have to do it at the initial stage, I’m telling you the initial stage, the beginning stage.
Q: So, for the past eight years I’ve read so much, I’ve done so many practices that people have shown me and things like that, and I just feel more confused and more lost than ever before, and I’m just tired of it and I need it all to stop. And I understand it intellectually, a lot of it, but there’s no conviction at all. It still seems like a fantasy and a good idea. I just don’t know what to do anymore to get…
Maharaj: You must accept this, that you are not the body at all. It is fact, open fact, forget about spirituality for a time. You are knowing intellectually that this body is not your identity at all. You were a small child, you have become a young man, after you will become an old man, and after, willingly or unwillingly, you will have to leave this body. That means the body is not your identity, open fact. Forget about spirituality, these are intellectual things. The concept ‘I am somebody else’ is supposed to dissolve. The concept ‘I am somebody else’ is supposed to be dissolved. There is no karma, no dharma, no destiny, nothing is there. You are totally unborn, it is fact! So many concepts are there after reading so many books. We are depending upon bookish knowledge, literal knowledge. Last birth, future birth, who’s birth? Is the sky taking any birth? Is the sky having any destiny? You’re Spontaneous, Invisible Presence is beyond that.