So be simple, be normal. Just you see, just like you are sitting on the bank of a river. Whatever is happening, whatever is flowing. Nature of the river it is flowing, just like the nature of the body that contains five elements. So many thoughts. Good thoughts, bad thoughts, miraculous thoughts, dramatic thoughts. Bound to flow there. So, be steady, be silent, don’t get disturbed with that thought flow. Thoughts are going and coming. You’re not concerned with the thoughts. Thoughts which are useful for you, you can take it, otherwise throw it out.
See we travel all the world. You came across with so many people. Are you remembering how they are? What has happened to them? All memories flush out. Similarly, memory, through this body form, whatever is there, it will be dissolved automatically. Keep in mind, all experience, it may be ‘I am Brahman’ as experience is also illusion.
Because ultimate stage there is no experience, there is no experiencer also. No knowledge, nothing is there. Consciousness, awareness, everything disappears. No witness, no witnesser. The purpose of our talk is just to convince yourself your identity is beyond that.
Q: He says conviction cannot happen spontaneously and he must make some effort to convince himself.
I am repeating. This body is called ‘man’. You have been told this body is called ‘man’. You accepted it. So, all activities are of the nature of the ‘man’ only. That is conviction. Simple thing this body is not going to remain constant it is a fact. You are using the body, to experience all the incidents happening, not happening. So inviting that attention of the invisible Spirit. Through which you are doing all the activities. Through which your mind, ego, intellect is working. Everything prior to, everything prior to any experience, your Presence is there. All questions, prior to raising the question your Presence is there.
You are steady. Everything is moving around you. When you are traveling on train. You are steady train is running, trees are also running. You are there and there only. So likewise, your existence is beyond sky. So, what I want to convey to you is that without body your existence is beyond sky. So don’t worry what will happen, ‘I dreamt this body, what will happen to that soul’ or whatever. Nothing is going to happen. When you come in this world as a man or woman, have you thought prior to birth ‘I will take birth in Russia’? Therefore totally don’t have any pressure of body. Enjoy this life peacefully, happily. Do your job efficiently. So now you have got Ultimate Truth in you.
That is sufficient, what do you want more?
These are invaluable jewels given to you. Why to beg for somebody’s grace? One Saint from Ashram, he came here after discussion he says ‘Put your hand on my head’ Why? You can put your own hand on your head. Because he was not, he is about 75, so his devotion more than 50 – 60 years in this field. He had not come across such knowledge. So he wanted to come again, he is suffering from his diabetic condition, has heart condition. Even though after 60 years journey he came here. He was a Swami. So this is direct, this knowledge is very, very rare.
Q: Maharaj, another paragraph from the book.
Q: We don’t know about the specific Ganesha gesture.
‘The spiritual path is very easy’ it’s very easy. I am trying to tell you, spiritual path is very, very easy it is your own story. ‘Attention which is on this side needs to be shifted to the other side’. We are having attention on body, all the time concentrating body, therefore that attention should be paid to the Ultimate Truth. ‘Ganesha idol is God for pleasant thoughts and offer sweets’. Your presenting flowers etc. You are doing everything for the idol. ‘However you do not pay any attention to what he says by his hand gesture. He shows, directly he shows, a pinch between thumb and finger to say “Only this is the mistake which has to be corrected’.
Q: What does that explain?
I’ll tell you. He is directing you pinch thumb and finger. Like this. Only this is the little mistake we are making.
Instead of having attention that ‘I am Brahman’ You are talking as a man or woman, in body form. That means you are Ultimate Truth, but you are committing a little mistake that ‘I am somebody else’.
So far what I have told. So far what I have told, keep in mind. There is no question of any confusion. No question of any confusion. This is a straight approach. Why is there confusion? Because so far you are taking yourself as you are the body. Which you are not at all. As and when there is confusion, as and when there is question, as and when there is doubt, that means because of the body base. So, you were not the body, you are not the body and you are not going to remain as a body. Use this body. Enjoy this body. But you must have construct, you must have constructed the feeling, ‘I am not the body at all’. It is the truth. Your truth, everybody’s truth. To maintain this Reality, you have to undergo meditation every day. To maintain this health, we are exercising. Similarly, to maintain spiritual health you have to undergo meditation. No doubt it is illusion, but you have to undergo meditation until you have perfection in conviction. When a small child is there, he is not able to walk on his own feet. You are giving some cart so he can walk. After having strength in the legs, that child is not using that cart.
Q: What exactly must he concentrate on?
That meditation is there. I told you through Guru Mantra. But if you are not believing in Guru Mantra, you pick your right way who’s your guru, then concentrate him. There is no hard and fast rule. If you are following Ramana Maharashi, keep Ramana Maharshi right there. If you have strong belief, go ahead, it’s ok. It is up to you only. To accept some Master is up to you. You can consider any Master. You can choose any Master, where you are having strong faith. But that faith should be honest faith. Complete trust is required. No shaky knowledge. Because all of these Master’s had strong faith in their own Master.
When Your search ends at that time you will feel I am totally enlightened. So now you are not required to approach so many masters here and there. Need not approach so many masters. You should not be impressed by somebody else. They will add confusion. It means you are supposed to be totally loyal within yourself. The foundation supposed to be constructed on a very strong foundation. Except this no knowledge is there. This is the ultimate medicine. Ultimate Truth. It is your truth. So be simple, very, very simple. Don’t argue with anybody else. Because again, it’s the story of the blind. You have seen the entire elephant. Blind sees part of the elephant, so naturally there is argument, this is real, this real. But when you have
seen the elephant, why to argue with all these so called people? Master has placed before you the entire elephant. You see the elephant. So, there should not be any type of doubtwith you.
Q: Maharaj, he says that he was tortured the whole night yesterday you remind him of very strange feeling their is no support, their is no knowledge, their is no Masters, no devotees, no mantras, no nothing and he remains without any support. No devotion, no faith, nothing.
M: Very good. Good sign. Yes. Because you have seen yourself. Master as support is only artificial limbs. You have seen your own. Why do you want support, your independent. It’s good sign.
Q: He’s confused.
M: Why so? Now you are not a child, your a grown up man. Spiritually grown up man. Child wants support of parents. You can walk on your own feet. Now you enjoy freedom. Because when you say that exceptional experience that I have nothing, no body feeling, nothing else, no support, it’s very nice. So all
bondage, of body bondage is dissolved.
Q: Looks like he likes he loves his bondage. He lost his faith and because of that he feels unhappiness.
M: How can you say you lost your faith? You have not lost your faith. All these experiences appear on your Presence only. So there is no faith as such. You have faith in you. Have full faith in you. That is your body, body essence is dissolved. Faith and trust, these are words when their is body conviction. If at all you want to compare, you compare like space or sky. Is sky having any faith with any master? Who is master of the sky? No feeling is there, Ultimate stage, no feeling is there. Because we know ourself in body form so many types of feelings are there. What Nisargadatta Maharaj says when thoughts are fighting inside, you’re different, you know thoughts are fighting inside.
When did you come across with the disturbing mind? When did you come across with the mind? When you know yourself, ‘I am’. Then you came across with the mind. What is the mind? ego? who says ‘my intellect’? Who says ‘I’? To say something, your prior Presence, your Spontaneous Presence is necessary.
How that Presence is? Spontaneous Presence, Invisible Presence, Anonymous Presence. Unidentified identity. Just to indicate, it’s say,identity, or it’s existence. You are having tremendous energy, all the time we are measuring in this body. So therefore, I have given the example of that factory. These are veils, mind, ego, and intellect. That is in charge, ego and intellect are working under him. Workers are there all parts are there, working hours and years together. You are providing them with energy. You are paying their salary. Your taking food. Your nourishing them. I am trying to simplify this.
Q: It is mysterious. Beyond the common sense or solution.
M: See very powerful exceptional energy, power you have. But because you are not aware of your power, therefore you are trying to have some artificial happiness, artificial peace, their painkillers.
Q: I have temptation to use this energy. Ego tempatation to…
M: Again you are taking the body form. Be as it is. After knowing be as it is, be silent. Temptation is coming through the body feeling. Who’s temptations? Why this? No temptation is there. You want to become something. Who wants to become something? Again you are taking the body form. But that conviction is required, Yes! Temptations are bound to be there, feelings are bound to be there. But always behind that temptation, behind that alertness, behind everything, your Presence is there.
Q: If I have conviction I also take the body form.
M: Conviction, there is no separate conviction. I told you this body is called man, that’s conviction. Are you saying ‘I’m a man, I’m a man?, I‘m Vladimer, I’m Vladimer’ are you repeating ‘I am Vladimer, I am Vladimer’? No. Your parents have given the name Vladimer. Your Vladimer. Even in deep sleep, say Vladimer, oh, I am Vladimer. So that name is totally attached with your body. And you accept as fact.
Q: About this conviction, so…
M: This body is called man, that is conviction. If anyone says you are a woman, you will slap him.
Your name is Vladimer. In deep sleep, someone says Vladimer, you wake and say yes. In deep sleep also you remember your name.
Q: So conviction is kind of silent knowledge.
M: Conviction means, Ultimate Truth, which is accepted spontaneously. When that lion is not knowing he is a lion. Since he was brought up with the goats. He considered himself, that lion considered himself, ‘I’m a goat, I’m a got.’ And he started fearing dogs and fox and things. Lion from jungle or forest says ‘You are not a goat, Your a lion.’ He took him and analyzed the all the parts of his body. See my parts of the body, see your parts of the body they are the same. Then he went to compare the body of the goats. Then the goat says “Oh, I am a lion.” Likewise Master is explaining all these things. Your not a man or woman, You are not Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, Master. Your identity is beyond that. Your identity is beyond that. These are high definitions. Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, OK, good, good. But what they want to convey? Your power your energy, is extremely, beyond, beyond, that. Not even that. You are prior to everything. Without presence you can not find see the world. So Your Presence can not be defined in words. We are trying to use so many words, to convince that. What more do you want?
Q: I don’t know.
M: So just be silent.
Q: I want this to be established.
M: Again your asking, why, your already there. You are already there. But you forget, therefore
you say ‘I want to be established’ You are established, the established Truth, it’s Ultimate Truth. Just like you say ‘I want to become Vladimer’ How can you become Vladimer? ‘I want to become man’ You are already man! Likewise the terminology that Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, Master, God, Goddesses, all these are within you only. Only one thing because of association with the body you forgot your identity. That is shown through the source of Master. Their is no difference between, Master and seekers and disciple. Spirit is there.
What is there? Take your time, use your energy, nothing wrong with you. Happiness is there, your beyond fear, fear is a shadow. It is your shadow, ghost, where is the ghost? Your shadow. To say ‘ghost’ or to say ‘God’ your Presence is there. Without your Presence how can you say ‘ghost’ and ‘God’? These are imaginary things.
M:Time and space we created, no time no space is there. No meaning is there, everything is meaningless. Yourself, myself the entire world is meaningless. Entire world is illusion. Who has created time? After having touched with the body you say ‘This is time, this is space, this is east, this is west’, no meaning is there. Though no words are there, there is no meaning. Your Absolute everywhere you are. Beyond sky, your Presence is beyond sky, no meaning is there. Meaning is also giving some limitations.
For discussion it is OK. No time limit, no border limit, no meaning is there. You see within your Selfless Self, nothing is there. Just some way, some subtle way say ‘I’. Without having any shape. The wave does not have any shape. The experience I have is because of body base, if body is not there who will talk about the I? If body is not there, who will talk about the ‘I’, ‘You’, ‘He”, ‘She’, ‘It’, nothing is there. Nisargadatta Maharaj says ‘If you want to compare, compare just like the sky’, sky does not have it’s own feeling. Birth, death, meaning, time limit, nothing is there. We created a circle, we created so many concepts, ok, using say, human life, all conditions and meanings are there. All science is there, spiritual science is there, religions are there, it is an illusory world. That is what is ‘Shivoham’ no master, no brother, no disciple, nothing is there. It is easy to say but you need to have spontaneous conviction. It is open fact. After leaving body where is the meaning? As long as we are living in the body as a man or woman, ‘somebody else’ all these concepts are there. When did concepts come across, when you came across with the body, if there is no body, no concepts are there. I’m inviting attention of that Ultimate Truth. Listeners truth.
Q: Prior to beingness, it doesn’t seem, there is nothing Maharaj.
M: Yes, of course, nothing, to know nothing, all this everything is there. I told you everything came out of nothing, everything dissolves within nothing. Just for discussion purpose we are refreshing the Reality. Because you forgot your identity, it is not your fault. Because of long association with the body, you forgot your identity under the pressure of man, woman, some concepts are there, all concepts came along with the body and will dissolve along with the body. Entire world is illusion, nothing is there. Brahman is illusion, Atman is illusion, Paramatman, Master and Disciple is illusion. Siddharameshwar Maharaj says ‘To teach you something I have to take ego as a master’ without ego I can’t talk with you. There is no difference between you and me, but you are posing as a man ‘somebody else’, you have to change your views. There should be conviction, ‘I am nothing to do with the world’.
Q: What do you mean by idendity? Unidentified, but you said it is identity?
M: Presence is there. Without your knowledge, some Presence is there. Therefore, unidentified, invisble annonymous identity. Listen to my words, how I define. It is unidentified, invisble identity – you can’t see, annonymous – there is no name, you can’t define it. Pure Presence, Presence is nameless, without form, it cannot be defined with any words. Therefore we say unidentified idenity, annonymous identity, invisble identity. You can’t guess.
Q: Maharaj, does it indicate itself?
M: Selfless Self. You say ‘self’ it is having some color of ego, when you say ‘self’ there is some color of ego. It is Selfless Self.
Q: Yes, so ‘self’ without ego?
M: Sellfess Self, there is no ego, no mind there is no intellect. There is no ‘I’ there is no ‘You’ nothing is there.
Stop thinking, be normal, forget everything. How you were prior to 100 years like that you stay. When there was no body experience, like that you stay. Get rid of all these thoughts, rid of all these thoughts. Your a rich man, your a great man. OK, Don’t worry about, it will take care of it. This is not understanding, this is fact. When your understanding something else is there, but it is fact. I’m simplifying. The light is a fact. For understanding I will realize, there is understanding. So understanding and fact there’s always difference. You are beyond understanding.
During this lifetime there is bound to be different types of storms. So you must have a strong capacity to face all types of storms. So you will feel that type of incident in the moment, but when you come out of that moment. Every spiritual man or spiritual entity, always coming across various types of storms. But you face it strongly. Because you are holding body, body contains five elements, every elements has it’s own strain. And you are providing strain to all of these five elements. Without your Presence they can not come across. That means you have a lot more importance than the five elements. Your Presence is totally doubtless, it is strong Presence. So unpleasant veils appear on the Presence trying to disturb you. So if your not strong internally than it effects you, then you become nervous. Then you say ‘I have no faith’. So this is coming and going. See for example yesterday your happiness abound, shouting happy, today it’s different situation, tomorrow again your down. But in truth? Yesterday is good, today is good. So it is bound to happen. Not to take note of any happening or not happening. In every situation, good or bad situation, your Presence is there.
You say this is a good situation, this is a bad situation, there is no good situation or bad situation at all. Question of nervousness, question of disappointment, nothing is there. See Nisargadatta Maharaj had a lot of difficulties in life. After having Mantra he left all these shops, 8-9 shops were there, a lot of property, at that time very, very rich. Just to confirm the principle or teaching of masters, he went away, left everything. With only his clothes he went away and for a year he was wandering here and there. He faced a lot of problems. One time, when he was wandering here and there, there’s nothing, he was very, very hungry he wants water, and he started to become very disappointied. What to do? At that time he sees some cottage, far in distant place, some smoke is coming. With hope he went there, and one old man was there. He says ‘what you want?’ Maharaj says ‘I am hungry I want water I am thirsty.’ So he goes and gets him some food, after going some time, he sees that cottage disappeared. So when he came back to Mumbai, all shops were taken away by partners, one shop remained. But he was having strong faith in his Master, and out of that he overcame all the difficulties. His young daughter died, expired, wife expired, mother expired, so many unpleasant incidents taking place during his life. But he did not become discouraged by these. Because he had perfect knowledge that Master had given to him. He used to say ‘I welcome all the difficulties’ so like that he was very, very strong. Because he was having strong faith in Master. He was not nervous any moment, and with this it is instructing, to have courage. With that effect, he is explaining his own experience.
Whatever difficulty you are having in spiritual life, be strong, because you are Ultimate. Unpleasant veils are going and coming. Not enter your spiritual life. These are the life experiences of all the saints. Life experience of the saints. All saints faced so many problems, but they stick with their own Unidentified Identity. Not to give undue importance to thoughts, intellect or mind. Undue importance to flowing thoughts or mind or intellect. Just you see the thoughts, just keep quiet. Because you have become victim of some thoughts, you say ‘I have lost faith’ ‘I am so disappointed’because you have become victim of your thoughts which are flowing. And then you forgot your strength. Remind your energy, you are He-Man, come with all power. ok, you say anything, that you are free to express. So it is temporary effect. Nothing is useless, nothing is useful. The thought is, ‘this is useful’, ‘this is a useless thing’. Without your Presence who says this is useless or this is useful? What is the meaning of useless and useful? It’s all concept, someone says ‘this is useful’, someone says ‘this is not useful’. So we have become a victim of our own concepts. There is no world at all so what is useful and useless?
My dear child entire world is your own projection. Nothing is good, nothing is bad. Good thing, bad thing appeared on your Presence. Just like a cloud comes on sun. The sun says ‘This cloud is useless?’ ‘I have to remove that black cloud’ It’s coming and going, sun is there. You are beyond sun.
There’s no limitations. Body is having limitation. With these various words we are trying to convince except yourself nothing is there in the world. Who says ‘I’? To say ‘I’ to say ‘you’ some identity is required. For discussion purposes, you have to take the help of some words. Spiritual words. Just to convince that Invisible Identity, which can not be defined in words. So the source of the entire world is within you only, not in the form of body. But because of long association with the body, and so called mind, and ego and intellect. You forgot your identity. Started thinking I am a man or woman. ‘I am knowledge’, ‘I am Brahamn’, ‘I am Atman’, ‘I am Paramatman, God or Master’. All these terminologies started.
As a matter of fact, these terminologies, these terminologies are within the space of time, of I am, from childhood until today. Prior to childhood, when your not knowing yourself, there is no I am, there is no Brahman, there is no Atman, there is no Paramatman,there is no Master, nothing. After leaving this body, there is no experiencer, there is no experience,there is no identity,there is no consciousness, there is no awareness, nothing is there.
Q: I can compare it is like a hole in the ice, I was covered in ice and you break the hole.
Don’t apply your intellect, don’t make deliberate effort, what I told is Ultimate, is your identity, spontaneous identity, invisible identity. I try to explain, in some words, words have no meaning, just to convey, because without words I can’t convey you. So I am taking the help of them, but as a matter of fact, nothing is there, except yourself. It’s open truth. All our discussions, even spiritual discussion, high level discussions, discussions about Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, these are only dry discussions. We can go on discussing hours together their is no meaning, out of discussion, what is the conclusion.
Q: No conclusion.
Conclusion is that, except yourself nothing is there. All spiritual books, all the discussion, all this information,with various sources, what they indicate, is except that Unidentified, Spontaneous, Anonymous, Invisible Identity, nothing is there.So be calm and quiet. You do your job, spirituality is not disturbing your routine life. It’s not something, what happens, I am going to die, no. But, at Ultimate stage you are totally fearless, there won’t be any type of tension, there is no question of happiness or unhappiness.All these terminologies, connected with the body form only. When there is conviction ‘I am not body, I was not body, I am not going to remain body,then why should I be bothered about any of this atmosphere?’
Q: To survive.
OK, therefore Siddharameshwar Maharaj rightly says “This is little carrot, so far you can play, you play, otherwise you can eat it.” So, with various words, various terminologies, with various
information,trying to convince, Silent, Invisible, Anonymous, Spontaneous, Listener, everything behind, Your Spontaneous Presence is there. Don’t try to color it in the form of mind, ego, intellect. There is no mind, there is no ego, there is not any intellect.
Q: When you teach a person, do you give him a task on purpose or just spontaneously. For example, ‘Today I will tempt him, I will give him temptation and we will see whether he can manage it or not.’ Do you give like this or just spontaneously?
Temptation appears spontaneously, I am not giving, I have to take ego to give something. There is no ego, no giving, no taking. It happens spontaneously. The Listener is spontaneous, Listener is listening, Speaker is speaking, body is external cover, this is a voice box. See, there is not any difference because everywhere, all these bodies, Spirit is one. Bodies are different all the time were thinking as body, body-knowledge. Therefore ‘I am different’ that body identity is supposed to be dissolved. We are talking something, we are listening something, on the base of body. It’s open fact, body is not your identity at all.
For discussion purpose, say action of thoughts, conversation, language is there, body is required, only body can’t listen, it requires some Spirit, Power. This is a power house. Power is invisible, if power is not there, what is the use of the power house? The inner power is supplying power, generating power, but if generating power stopped then what is the use of that power house? It is open truth it is not difficult. Some or other way, we are having strong faith in body because of long association with the body. We have allot of attachment. If I stay at some house I get used to that house. This is a house. Staying 30, years, 40 years, 50 years, after maintaining it, you’ll not want to leave the house. This house belongs to the five elements. Just like stones are there, bricks are there, cement is there, sand is there. Blood is there, flesh is there, bones are there, so many organs are there, without power nothing will not function.
M: We say ‘I-am’ is the whole, ‘I-am’ is the world, beyond the world, this is all literal knowledge.
Q: It’s my feeling.
M: My feeling, who is feeling that, behind that my feeling, something is there to say ‘my-feeling’. To
say ‘my-feeling’ some energy is there. Without that how can you say ‘my-feeling’? Some click is
there, spontaneous click, spontaneous presence is there, out of that spontaneous presence immediately
taking ego as, ‘my-feeling’. There is no ego, there is no intellect, there is no mind, when you say
‘my-feeling’, prior to that feeling your spontaneous presence is there.
Q: Yes, I follow but not with my mind.
M: Forget about mind. So like electricity, that light, electricity is there. Therefore it is flowing,
who is the cause of the shining?, electricity. This is a light, this is a fan. ‘My light’, who says
‘my light’? Without electricity how can you say light You can say ‘my-light’, but if electricity is
not there how can you say ‘my-light’? Likewise, ‘my feeling’ ‘I-am’, to say ‘I-am’ to say ‘my
feeling’, some subtle, some invisible, spontaneous, anonymous, presence is there. Without that
presence, you can’t say ‘I’ or ‘you’. I am inviting attention of that invisible presence. Which
cannot be defined in the words.
Presence is there, but it can not be defined. Out of that presence we are talking. We are acting,
body is only media. Mind is media, intellect is media, ego is media, all these, this factory working
because of one electricity. If that electricity, power is not there, what is the use of the factory?
This is factory. Heart is working, liver is working, eyes are there, so this is inner factory. Your
eating, your digesting, these internal parts. Entire body is one factory, who is running that
I am running life with ‘my-mind’, director, so many things are there. Mind is there, intellect is
there, personality department is there. General Managers are there, so this isa factory. How is it
working? Some owner is there? Invisible owner, Spontaneous owner.
With that invisible instruction, that factory is working. What happens is that mind becomes stronger,
mind starts to give instruction to that owner mind starts to give instruction to that owner. Owner is
not knowing his identity. Master says, No, don’t take instruction, You are the one, You are the
owner who is running all this, You are paying him.