A Talk with Sri Ramakant Maharaj October 17, 2016 Parts 1 and 2
Ramakant Maharaj USA Talk October 17, 2016 – Part 1 of 4
October 17, 2016
Maharaj: ‘Shama’ means tolerance. So all attributes…Forgive and forget, it appears. Previously, for small, small matters, you’re getting irritated. After having Realization, after having Spontaneous Conviction, nothing has happened, no irritation. Whatever happens, whatever small thing appears in your experience, you’ll be completely calm and quiet. Exceptional tolerance will be there, exceptional blissfulness is there. All desires will disappear. No desire, no mind, no ego, no intellect – it happens spontaneously, and it’s called Spontaneous Conviction.
You’ll become completely free. Even though you’re using this body, either male or female, you’ll remain unconcerned with the body-knowledge. You’re using the body as a temporary thing. Just like you’re using some thing, say, an instrument – like that. It happens spontaneously. That is the conviction, the Spontaneous Conviction. Understanding is quite… “Oh, I understand, I’m not the body”, it is not so easy. And for which, again I am repeating, meditation is the basic thing. You have to devote some time. Some time means at least one hour. If you consider 24 hours, at least one hour. What are you doing for one hour? Just to try to identify the Unidentified Identity within you. I was not the body, I am not the body, I’m not going to remain the body. That Reality will be absorbed totally within you.
So even though you’re living in this world as a male or female, you’re unconcerned with the body activities. It happens. Complete peacefulness will be there. And this is very simple. The Nama Mantra is playing a very, very good part. Through Nama Mantra you’re hammering yourself. Slowly, silently, and permanently, all these desires, all these expectations and needs, will be dissolved. You’ll be completely free, completely free, completely silent, silent, silent.
So understanding intellectually is not sufficient. Because everything is within you. Spirituality, Reality, is not separate from you. So far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, therefore we’re not able to identify ourself in a real sense. If we haven’t identified ourself in a real sense, whatever you’re doing, if you approach thousands of Masters, if you read thousands of books, it will not help you.
Some people come and say “50 years I’m doing spirituality”, “30 years I’m doing spirituality”, what are you doing? Subtle ego is there: “I’m doing something”. You’re not the doer! There’s no deed! Nothing is there.
So, the first stage, body-identity is supposed to be dissolved totally, spontaneously. It happens. Nothing is impossible, you’re getting courage.
So, don’t play with the words, the spiritual words, we’re playing with the spiritual words: ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, so many, so many, thousands of words. We’ve created language, we’ve given meaning to the language. Not to struggle with the language. Someone is saying “why this, why you”, these are the words! Just for conversation, just for sharing the Reality, knowledge.
See what was there prior to beingness. Any language was there? No ‘I’ was there, there was no ‘you’, no ‘he’, ‘she’, ‘it’, nothing was there. No concept of God, no Master, no disciple, no devotee, no deity. Nothing was there. After leaving the body, what remains? You’ve got a lot of knowledge, you’re master of knowledge, okay. Will that knowledge be helpful at the time of leaving the body? What is the use of that knowledge? What do you mean by knowledge? Just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re identifying ourself in body-form and that is illusion, this is open fact.
So everything starts and ends within you. As I told you, everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing. Your Presence was there but not in any form. You’re formless Presence. After leaving the body your Presence will be there, but not in any form. Just like so many houses have collapsed, what is the fate of the sky, space? Sky is not dying, there’s no death, no birth.
So ‘death’ and ‘birth’ concepts are supposed to be dissolved. All desires will be dissolved. It happens! We’re having subtle, subtle desires. So instead of studying the spirituality, try to digest that spirituality within you. Spirituality is not separate from you. So far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, counting ourself in body-form, spirituality will be different. The moment spirituality is absorbed, at that stage there is no ‘I’, there is no ‘you’, ‘he’, ‘she’, nothing is there. No God is there, no Master is there, no disciple, no devotee, nothing is there! Therefore I’ve told you: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman.
All needs, requirements, desires came along with the body. Where were those desires prior to beingness? Everything dissolves along with the body. What remains? Nothing.
Q: Master, is it best to stop reading your book, or Nisargadatta’s books? Is it best to stop reading that at some point?
Maharaj: Not to stop reading! You read it! You can read books, but you’re reading your biography. When you’re reading certain books, suppose this a story given from birth to death, a biography, “Oh, it’s my biography! It is my story!” You read it in that way. Somebody wrote a biography on your life without your knowledge, when you come across with such a book, “Oh, it’s my biography!” Like that, when you’re reading any – Ramana Maharashi is there, Nisargadatta Maharaj is there, so many Masters are there. Their language is different, but what did they want to convey? So many spiritual books are there. Don’t “subtle body, this body, that body”, what to do with the bodies! Where are the bodies prior to beingness? “Four bodies are there, this body”, what to know, why to bother with these ‘bodies’!
See, the principle behind spiritual knowledge is that this body belongs to the five elements. You are the projector of these five elements. Where were these five elements prior to beingness?
Sky is there, earth is there, wind is there, sun and light is there. So all these five elements came along with the body. Where were the five elements prior to beingness? After leaving the body will you know any elements? Nothing will be there.
So all knowledge, whatever knowledge you have, will dissolve along with the body. So why to play with the words? All spiritual words are an indication inviting the attention… (of the Invisible Listener……… Video malfunction.)
Ramakant Maharaj USA Talk October 17, 2016 – Part 2 of 4
October 17, 2016
Maharaj: No form is there. Prior to beingness any form was there? We’re not knowing ‘Who am I?’ To say ‘I am’, some Presence is required. Where is that ‘I’ prior to beingness? That Conviction, I’m not just talking understanding, that Conviction is supposed to appear spontaneously. For which you have to undergo strictly meditation, it’s the only source. Not any exercise, no torturing of the body. You’re not required to go anywhere, to any temple. You’re not required to go to any Master also. Approach your own Master. You’re neglecting your own Master. You’re measuring yourself in body-form, that Master.
Knowledge is everywhere. That is called Realization. Because it is Unidentified, Invisible, Anonymous Identity. There’s no name. You can’t see, you’ll feel it. What you see is illusion, through which you see is Reality. The entire world is projected out of the Seer’s, the Invisible Seer within you. The entire world is projected out of the Invisible Seer within you.
You can’t guess. Mind, ego, intellect disappears. These are functioning elements, they’re not bad. If you use excessively, the mind, ego, intellect, it will be bad. We say that anything in excess will be poison.
So have all your responsibilities. Not to neglect you body, not to neglect your family. Do your job, do your duties. “Oh, I’m a spiritual man, how can I do those things?”, no. Because you’re Final Truth. Therefore Spontaneous Conviction is supposed to appear, with the result that you’ll remain unconcerned with the world, untouched with the world, untouched by all concepts. All desires will dissolve, no desires will be there.
Therefore spiritual courage is required to accept the Reality. The Reality is not separate from you. And therefore again I am repeating, meditation is the only source. With the intellect we can understand, it’s okay.
Why is knowledge required? Because we forgot our identity. What do you mean by knowledge? Just to identify oneself, a simple thing. After identifying ourself, the identifier disappears.
Through various words I am trying to convince the Invisible Listener within you, which is formless. Why to read so many books? Okay, you require so many books, but what they convey is most important. Only reading thousands of books is meaningless. Because you are the central point of this world. If for a moment the Presence is not there, what is the value ofthis body? And what is the value of the knowledge? Where was that knowledge prior to beingness? What is the use of that spiritual knowledge after leaving the body?
Thousands of questions are there. The answer is within you. There is only one answer: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman. They’re all concepts which appear upon your Presence. Even ‘I am Brahman’ is also a concept which appears upon your Presence. Presence does not know ‘I am Presence’.
And therefore, instead of studying spirituality, try to absorb what you’ve listened to. It’s the Listener’s story, the Listener’s Identity. Because this body is an opportunity for you. Don’t waste time. It is invaluable, your Presence is invaluable. Through the body you can identify ‘I’.
It’s a combination of Presence and the body. Presence touched with the body, and you say ‘I’. Just like a matchbox and stick. Fire is everywhere. The moment the matchbox and stick click each other, you see fire. Where will that fire go? Hell or heaven? The moment the Invisible Presence touches with the body you say ‘I’. Where was that ‘I’ prior to beingness?
So be practical. You’ve got a lot of theory. You’re not required to study any spiritual books. ‘The five elements are there’, ‘these bodies are there’, ‘four bodies are there’, why to use all this ‘four bodies’ and all these things? The ‘subtle body’, ‘this body’, ‘consciousness’, ‘unconsciousness’, ‘awareness’, this is only playing with the words. You’ll not get happiness out of that. It’s entertainment, momentary spiritual entertainment. What is the use of spiritual science? It’s what it says, “You’re separate from all these five elements.” The moment your Presence appears, all this entire world is projected, including the five elements. You are the father of the five elements. Where was the sky prior to beingness?
I’m giving a simple example. In a dream you see everything, correct? You’re sleeping, you’re in deep sleep. You see the sky, you see the moon, you see the sun, you see the ocean, you see so many people. Until this day you might have seen thousands of dreams. What has happened to all those people you’ve seen in your dreams? How was that dream world projected? You’re there and there only. This is a long dream-world.
But what happens? A lot of desires are there. “I want this thing, that thing, that thing.” One devotee came to me talking about some thoughts, they mentioned facebook or something. The human being, in the beginning we’re not coming along with these pockets. After leaving the body, you’re not having any pockets. Why to fill the pockets in between?
That means, prior to beingness nothing was there. Now so much anxiety, now so much greed is there, “I want this, I want this, I want this”. Who wants all these things? For what? How long are you going to use all these things? Temporary reliefs. Money is there, sex is there, publicity is there, so many things are there, so many material causes are there.
So be firm, firmness is most important. And for which you must have strong faith within you and your Master, who so ever is your Master. But Master is not in any form, it’s a formless Master, not this form (Maharaj indicates his body). The Invisible Identity within the Master and the Invisible Identity within the so-called disciple is not separate. They are one and the same, bodies are different. So Reality is not impossible.
Q: Master, the Conviction, Spontaneous Conviction can happen at any time, it doesn’t necessarily happen during meditation, is that correct?
Maharaj: It happens spontaneously after having the Conviction. After having this Conviction, it dissolves all body-knowledge. The moment body-knowledge dissolves…This is a food-body, you know this is a food-body. So far we’re supplying food and water, it happens. Who is acting in this body? Who is talking from this body? Who is experiencing from this body? Who is listening from the body, who is thinking from the body? Say I am talking something-something about spirituality. The invisible listener within you is analyzing the words, without your knowledge, and raising some questions. Who is that questioner?
It is very, very interesting. Go deep and deep and deep within Selfless Self and you’ll find peacefulness, ‘Oh, so That I’.
Q: Master, deeper and deeper into meditation, you’re talking deeper and…
Maharaj: After having meditation, through those meditation words (Mantra), all the concepts will be dissolved, melted. Body-identity will be dissolved. And you’ll see within yourself, ‘my beingness is everywhere and in every being’. ‘My Presence is everywhere’ – that Spontaneous Conviction will appear within you.
Q: So during the course of the day, when all these family members are around…
Maharaj: Yes, yes, it’s okay. In a dream, so many family members are there.
Q: There not really there, right?
Maharaj: So, I’m not asking you to neglect your family members. Whatever job you’re doing, do your job. Do your duties, take care of all your responsibilities. But at the same time, there should be the Conviction, ‘I’m nothing to do with all these things’. As if you’re acting in some drama. I’m giving a simple example, you’re acting in a drama, your doing some role. You’re doing a very nice role, people are saying, “Oh!” At that time you are knowing that ‘I am nothing to do with this role. I have to act two or three hours only, or two and a half hours, or two hours.’
Like that you have to convince yourself. Knowledge is there, a lot of knowledge is there. In the light of that knowledge of Reality you have to convince yourself, ‘where do I stand?’ ‘What do I want exactly? I’m meditating, I’m doing bhajans, I’m doing all these things, I’m reading so many books, I’m approaching so many Masters. To what extent will this be useful for me? Where do I stand? Who wants all these things? What is the purpose behind that?’
Because, we are not peaceful, we are not happy. Everything is with us, no happiness is there, no peacefulness is there, always there is tension, and most of all fear of the death. Why this? Because we’re not identifying ourself in a real sense. We’re not having any experience of death and birth. And as you know, what is the time limit of this body? You are a small child, grown up as a young man or young woman, then you’re an old man, and some or other day, willingly or unwillingly we have to leave the body. It’s your Identity.
So be fearless. After having the Conviction, you’ll be fearless, ‘Oh, this is a dead body. Let anything happen’. Because I am unborn. These are allegations, you’ve taken birth and you’re going to die.
Therefore spiritual science says, if at all you want to compare (yourself), compare just like sky. Sky doesn’t know ‘I am sky’. So, your Invisible Presence does not know ‘I am Presence’.
We’re using ‘I’, ‘you’, ‘he’, ‘she’, ‘it’, it’s language, just for conversation. And therefore I told you, not to play with the spiritual words. “Who is ‘you’”, “Who is ‘I’”, it’s okay, just for understanding.
Really, it is very, very interesting.
Yes, do you want to ask a question? Please come here, sit, you can sit here.
Q2: I’ve noticed, Maharaj, since starting the Naam Mantra, that I have become more inward focused, much quieter. Able to take care of my duties but very detached, and much more efficient. But it seems like my energy is more inside (inaudible), much more at peace. So it’s been a good experience. I think I understand a little bit of what you’re talking about. I don’t know about Spontaneous Conviction, but there’s been a big switch, a big change since the Mantra…
Maharaj: See, so far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, whatever experience appears is illusion. If you feel ‘I am Brahman’, it is also illusion. Because whatever feeling, all feeling appears upon your Presence. Presence does not know…Name is given, ‘Brahman’, ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, ‘God’, ‘Master’, a name is given to identify that Invisible Presence.
Q: It’s not even like a feeling, there’s just quiet…
Maharaj: It’s good.
(More visitors arrive) Please come, please sit.
So, what about your spiritual studies? Be free!
Q3: I came across the teachings of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj ten years ago, and it had an impact on my beingness, and I wasn’t really able to handle that. So over the last ten years I’ve mainly practiced on the Sufi path. And the teacher (inaudible), he was familiar himself with the lineage of Sri Ramakrishna also, and last year I came back to reading Sri Nisargadatta, and your wonderful book.
Maharaj: See, after reading so many books, we have to absorb that knowledge. Knowledge is just Reality, your Reality, Listener’s Reality, Reader’s Reality. That ‘I’ is supposed to be dissolved.
That ‘I’ appeared upon your spontaneous Presence. If the Presence is not there, who will talk about the ‘I’? And as I told you, except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master. The Invisible Listener within you is the Master. It does not have any special identity. To say ‘I’, your Presence is required. If Presence is not there, who will talk about the ‘I’ and who will talk about the God? To say ‘God’, your Presence is required. The body can’t say, ‘this is God’. If there is no Presence, the body can’t act, this is a dead body. The Invisible Presence, the Invisible Listener within you, through which you can identify the world, that means the entire world is projected out of your Invisible Presence. If the Presence is not in the body, who will talk about the world and God and everything? Who knows Krishna? Prior to beingness, do you know Krishna? Any God you know? Any Master you know? Any spiritual knowledge you’re having? Nothing. After leaving the body what is the use of that Krishna? All Gods and Goddesses are concepts. Okay, it’s not bad, I’m not criticizing. I’m placing before you the Invisible Identity within you, which is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Krishna, whatever names are given. To say ‘Lord Krishna’, your Presence is there. If your Presence is not there, who will talk about Lord Krishna? We know the picture, ‘Oh, this is Lord Krishna’. Somebody told us, or we’re reading from some books, ‘This is the God, Rama, this is Krishna, this is this thing’, okay. Prior to beingness, do you know anything about this? Be honest. After leaving the body do you know anything about this? Any Master? Any God, any Goddesses?
Through the body we are trying to identify, ‘Oh, this is the God’. And what is the use of this God? Just to have peacefulness, happiness, what we require. The body-knowledge is not tolerable, therefore all these Gods and Goddesses are required. Why is spiritual knowledge required? Body-knowledge is not tolerable, for which you are taking some material causes. So many desires are there. So all desires are supposed to be dissolved spontaneously.
You may read thousands of books. What is the use of reading the books? Try to identify the Invisible Reader within you. We’re collecting information through various books and playing with the words, ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, ‘Brahman’, ‘God’, it’s okay, so many words are there. So many books are there, what do they convey? So many Masters are there, what do they convey? They say: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master. Why don’t you see that Master within you? Why don’t you see that Krishna within you? Because we’re measuring ourself in body-form. And that body-identity is supposed to be dissolved, for which you are to undergo the discipline of the meditation.
Why is meditation required? Through which you’re hammering yourself, you’re inviting the attention of the Invisible Meditator within you that you are Ultimate Truth, you are Final Truth. That is the base.
Meditation is also illusion, but it is necessary. To remove one illusion you have to take the help of another illusion. Be strong, not physically, spiritually. Have some courage to accept the Reality. We’re having pressures of so many concepts, spiritual concepts, ‘Oh, how can I do this. If I say something, it will do something.’ ‘This is called sin, this is called virtue’. What is ‘sin’, what is ‘virtue’? This is called ‘destiny’, this is ‘past birth’, ‘future birth’, who’s birth? This is ‘karma’, that is ‘karma’, what is ‘karma’? You’re not the doer, there’s no deed! Ultimate Truth is not separate from you. So far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, that Ultimate Truth will be separate.
As you know, the body is not your identity at all. The body was not your identity, and the body is not going to remain your identity at all, it’s open fact. Some or other day, willingly or unwillingly, you’ll have to leave this body.
And for which you must have Spontaneous Conviction. So read books, no problem. What do they convey, that is most important. Only adding spiritual words is meaningless. Will that spiritual knowledge be helpful at the time of leaving the body? No. Whatever you’re reading, whatever you’re listening to, it should be absorbed totally. If we go on talking hours together, it is meaningless.
I’m inviting the attention of the Invisible Listener within you all the time, that except your Selfless Self, nothing is there. Have some courage, spiritual courage, to accept the Reality which you are lacking. “I’m doing something, I’m doing…”, what are you doing? You can’t do anything! If there’s no Presence, what can you do with this body? If there’s no Presence for a moment in this body, what can you do, nothing. And therefor I’ve told you, this Presence is just like sky or space. It does not know ‘I am space’, also it does not know ‘I am Presence’. Try to identify the Invisible Identifier within you! It is unconcerned with the world, unconcerned with all activities. How you were prior to identifying yourself? “I don’t know”. What does identification mean after leaving the body? “I don’t know”. ‘I don’t know’ means I am shapeless, I am formless. My Presence is there, but not in form.
We have a lack of confidence. We’re listening to everything, everybody knows ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, ‘God’, ‘Brahman’, but a lack of confidence is there. Some impressions are there. We have to come out from this illusory circle. All our actions are within the illusory circles. So far desires are there, we’re under the pressure of mind, ego, intellect. What is mind? The flow of thoughts. Ego is there, “I’m doing something!”, what are you doing? Intellect is there. Where was the intellect, mind, ego prior to beingness?
Basically you are formless, no form is there, no shape is there. And therefore I am saying, everything came out of nothing and dissolves within nothing.
There are no restrictions. You’re not required to do any exercise, not to torture your body. Do your duties, have some responsibilities, be practical. “Oh, I’m a spiritual man, I’m a spiritual woman, how can I do this?” Not to do this. Be simple, be normal. Don’t underestimate yourself, “How can it happen?” Everything can happen, nothing is impossible. You’re not required to spend a single penny for this. It’s your knowledge!
Therefore my Master said, “I’m not making you a disciple, I’m making you a Master.” Because you are a Master. The moment you stop measuring yourself in body-form, the Master is not separate from you.